The longtime auxiliary bishop and former chairman of Adveniat, Franz Grave uses his spiritual retired as pastor in the parish of St. Mary Mülheimer birth. But his long-standing ties to Latin America, which he knows from personal experience, has the 78-year-old theologian is not lost and that is why in December 2010 the Brazilian Bishop Alfredo Schaffler (photo) to a Latin America Week invited to the Ruhr diocese. At a retreat in the parish of St. Mary Mülheimer birth searched priests and lay people to talk to Schaffler, to get ideas for their own community work. The Tagesspost for the Brazilian Bishops met on this occasion for an interview and got to know a man of God who does not tell us much about Latin America.
How to become an Austrian bishop in Brazil?
I ended up on television in Brazil. You see: Television has its good side. There I saw speak at the Second Vatican Council, a Brazilian bishop and heard by 16 from Austria went to Brazil and there was a priest. The time has brought me from my European peace. That was the reason why I have my life turned upside down and started again. Thus, even after my studies in Brazil priest and later bishop.
What you take from your visit to the Ruhr diocese with to Brazil?
gratitude, joy and conviction that the world has become a global village in which we must move closer together, where we also learn from each other and live together as brothers and sisters, if we listen to each other.
What have you learned here itself?
There is so much positive in Germany, which has grown over centuries of Christian proclamation and now finds the fundamental idea in economics, in politics or in school. But I have also met many committed community members get involved because they recognize that the church is not all priests and all of us as believers in a ship, are all in place.
But church without a priest does not and we have here, in contrast to Brazil for a priest shortage.
The lack of priests is certainly a sign of God. He will lead us, perhaps meaning that we more strongly by the Baptism go to every believer, making their contribution that the Church is always a lively, foot-washing Church, which is perceived as a sign of hope for the people in which we learn through the church again and again that we are brothers and sisters in a world can live together.
can learn what the Catholic Church in Brazil and Latin America from the Church in Germany and vice versa?
It is not for me to say what the German church can learn from us. But what can we learn from the church in Germany, which are many elements. I am thinking of the good organization that you have here. We can by the thoroughness , With which one might learn a thing and she continues convincing. But we can learn from the openness of the people of our world. How many people here have learned over the decades to see beyond borders and to identify horizons. As a member of the Episcopal Conference of Brazil, I can only be grateful. For what would our church in Brazil and in Latin America without standing behind the many Catholics in Germany, by Adveniat, Miserior or other actions. We were certainly not the Church that we are today. We are certainly not just a holy, but also a sinful church. But we can certainly put a lot of signs of holiness, hope and change, because We have heard from the background of the action Adveniat in 50 years a lot of help. For this, we feel deep gratitude. And that was another reason for me to accept the invitation to say thank you. This is a bridge which has been hit. But a bridge is supported only by pillars. And that is a pillar Franz Grave. Such columns are also the two priests from the Diocese of dysentery, which act today blessing in my diocese through their efforts at persuasion.
It is not for me to say what the German church can learn from us. But what can we learn from the church in Germany, which are many elements. I am thinking of the good organization that you have here. We can by the thoroughness , With which one might learn a thing and she continues convincing. But we can learn from the openness of the people of our world. How many people here have learned over the decades to see beyond borders and to identify horizons. As a member of the Episcopal Conference of Brazil, I can only be grateful. For what would our church in Brazil and in Latin America without standing behind the many Catholics in Germany, by Adveniat, Miserior or other actions. We were certainly not the Church that we are today. We are certainly not just a holy, but also a sinful church. But we can certainly put a lot of signs of holiness, hope and change, because We have heard from the background of the action Adveniat in 50 years a lot of help. For this, we feel deep gratitude. And that was another reason for me to accept the invitation to say thank you. This is a bridge which has been hit. But a bridge is supported only by pillars. And that is a pillar Franz Grave. Such columns are also the two priests from the Diocese of dysentery, which act today blessing in my diocese through their efforts at persuasion.
you referred to your visit but also successfully for funding in the cistern tree in your diocese. Why?
We live in a very dry area in which there are six Months of the year is not raining and the people can not just turn on the tap to drink water. But what is life. So we build cisterns, that we can collect rain water to families in the dry months of rain water have, they can use to wash, drink and cook. For 400 € you can already build a cistern, which collects about 15,000 liters of rain water. That means that by the people of the dry season and not withdraw into the cities or even leave their country must. You can stay to raise their children and to work their land. That is life. Of course, we also have social centers, in which we take in children whose At home, the street is where we give sewing and cooking classes to show the people, for example, how to create a vegetable garden. For what it receives with one hand, the pass must be with the other hand, in order to give people hope.
assess how you as a Catholic bishop, the relationship between church and state in Brazil, the now divorced from his office socialist President Lula?
The relationship between church and state is a relatively peaceful. It seeks dialogue and the Episcopal Conference is listened to with much respect by the President. But unfortunately, it is then often it is not and into reality.
made last inhumane conditions in prisons Brazil headlines. How is the situation of human rights in Brazil?
I was ten months in a detention center. There sat a 158 men. Of those, 60 percent younger than 25 and only 30 convicted. The others awaiting trial. This can often take years, even if innocent people. Including innocent people often lose two or three years of her life in which they have nothing positive can learn to their lives. This is against human rights. And here we see the present government not much progress, because it lacks core values. I mean honesty and truthfulness. We have not much fraud and corruption. And as long as lie is often told, until it is sold as truth.
I was ten months in a detention center. There sat a 158 men. Of those, 60 percent younger than 25 and only 30 convicted. The others awaiting trial. This can often take years, even if innocent people. Including innocent people often lose two or three years of her life in which they have nothing positive can learn to their lives. This is against human rights. And here we see the present government not much progress, because it lacks core values. I mean honesty and truthfulness. We have not much fraud and corruption. And as long as lie is often told, until it is sold as truth.
What do you expect from the successor to Lula, Dilma Rousseff?
As Church we must always be a hopeful church to give hope. And we hope that as a woman may have a greater sensitivity to bring their employees to act, so it is for example in the health system better. What is on paper, to be implemented, namely, that the poor fellow has the opportunity to obtain medical treatment that improves the education system and we have less illiterate. We have less corruption and is badly shattered, with more honesty and there is less embezzlement. This is what we expect.
try to respond as the Catholic Church in Latin America to the challenge of the evangelical sects?
The fifth Latin American Episcopal Conference has given an impetus for us something more to be a missionary church. We must not become accustomed to church. Because if you get used to something, there is a danger that one is asleep. And the Church can not sleep. Evangelization was with us often superficial. The heart is one of the Brazilian Jesus Christ, but of the head that comes first and we were not always because we are not always drawn out with missionary enthusiasm. We have in Brazil, but also a Constitution that grants tax exemption for all religious communities, but not exactly define what a religious community. And so, each open at the next street corner, the Church of the blue eyes of God to hide his taxes behind. For most cults are a purely financial company and we can counter only, in which we more strongly to be a missionary church.
The fifth Latin American Episcopal Conference has given an impetus for us something more to be a missionary church. We must not become accustomed to church. Because if you get used to something, there is a danger that one is asleep. And the Church can not sleep. Evangelization was with us often superficial. The heart is one of the Brazilian Jesus Christ, but of the head that comes first and we were not always because we are not always drawn out with missionary enthusiasm. We have in Brazil, but also a Constitution that grants tax exemption for all religious communities, but not exactly define what a religious community. And so, each open at the next street corner, the Church of the blue eyes of God to hide his taxes behind. For most cults are a purely financial company and we can counter only, in which we more strongly to be a missionary church.
How do you assess the situation of the Catholic Church in Latin American countries, like Venezuela, being ruled by a regime neosozialistischen and where there is a front line between church and government?
In Brazil we have now, after many years of a concordat, in which the legal relationship between church and start is defined. What we hear on the Latin American level, by people who come there, since then the economic situation in Venezuela very poor and the poverty in size. This is a socialist system in which President Chavez is often harassment and violence, the existing concordat with feet. Although this is an international agreement, but he does it with other countries. For us this is of course a concern that such a man to have in the government, the courting supporters, but also not as popular. Since we are closer as a church there in the people because you realize: There is indeed much talk, but the reality is different. For the Church this is a difficult situation. Because there is virtually no opposition. All messages will be checked. Democracy is violated. Because democracy is freedom of speech and will not be accepted. And in this regard, it has also some trends in Brazil. The future President has now said: The noise on the street is better than the silence of the dictatorship. She herself has suffered under a dictatorship. We hope that through it keeps its word, too. But there are some trends that we have that you want to curtail freedom of expression and control the communications. This makes us worry.
In Brazil we have now, after many years of a concordat, in which the legal relationship between church and start is defined. What we hear on the Latin American level, by people who come there, since then the economic situation in Venezuela very poor and the poverty in size. This is a socialist system in which President Chavez is often harassment and violence, the existing concordat with feet. Although this is an international agreement, but he does it with other countries. For us this is of course a concern that such a man to have in the government, the courting supporters, but also not as popular. Since we are closer as a church there in the people because you realize: There is indeed much talk, but the reality is different. For the Church this is a difficult situation. Because there is virtually no opposition. All messages will be checked. Democracy is violated. Because democracy is freedom of speech and will not be accepted. And in this regard, it has also some trends in Brazil. The future President has now said: The noise on the street is better than the silence of the dictatorship. She herself has suffered under a dictatorship. We hope that through it keeps its word, too. But there are some trends that we have that you want to curtail freedom of expression and control the communications. This makes us worry.
How important from your point of view of the alternative Nobel prize for your fellow Brazilian bishop of the Diocese of Xingu, Erwin Krautler, which is so committed to the conservation of tropical rainforests and the rights of the Indians?
This award is important for him so that his word may be heard more. Specifically: for trying in his area to build a huge dam. This is now done, although he has promised the president that it is not done. The result: there are 30,000 people through the water driven from their homes. And since there is no plan what to do with these people. As he stands up and asks: Can one agree? This he has done in a peaceful manner. The companies that make this building and are interested in seeing him, of course, not you. He has to go with police escort. You have to remember. In the flooded areas live Indian tribes, for whom it is important to live where their ancestors are buried. If they were evicted from their land, which would in their minds a similar extinction of their tribe. And on the other hand stands the Bishop Kräutler. But unfortunately he is not, despite all promises to the public authorities of Brazil heard.
Biography: Alfredo Schaffler was born in 1941 in the Austrian Forest Farm and is a compatriot of his coming also from Austria, Brazil bishop colleagues Erwin Kräutler, now for his commitment to the rights of the Indians and the preservation of tropical rain forests been awarded the Alternative Nobel Prize.
After his secondary school was Schaffler 1955 to Vienna to join the Congregation of Christian Brothers. From 1963 to 1966 he worked as a religious teacher and educator in Feldkirch. Then he decided to leave Austria to work as a priest in Brazil. After his ordination in 1966 he was first in the Brazilian Diocese of Picos worked before he went in 1978 for a church law graduate studies in Rome.
Back in Brazil, took over the task of a bishop's vicar Schaffler for Economic Affairs and was also active as a priest in Teresina. Since 1985 he heads the established in 1944 and 20 500 square-mile diocese Parnaiba in northeastern Brazil. Here live some 550,000 people, of which about 80 percent are Catholic, six percent more than the Brazilian national average.
After his secondary school was Schaffler 1955 to Vienna to join the Congregation of Christian Brothers. From 1963 to 1966 he worked as a religious teacher and educator in Feldkirch. Then he decided to leave Austria to work as a priest in Brazil. After his ordination in 1966 he was first in the Brazilian Diocese of Picos worked before he went in 1978 for a church law graduate studies in Rome.
Back in Brazil, took over the task of a bishop's vicar Schaffler for Economic Affairs and was also active as a priest in Teresina. Since 1985 he heads the established in 1944 and 20 500 square-mile diocese Parnaiba in northeastern Brazil. Here live some 550,000 people, of which about 80 percent are Catholic, six percent more than the Brazilian national average.
The Catholic newspaper THE DAILY MAIL has published in January 2011, a shortened version of that conversation. For more information, visit: www.the- tagespost.de and : www.adveniat.de
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